The Transformation brew changes the breed within a species. So going from Malii to Malii, I can use that to transform an offspring into a new unused offspring that I also own, right...?
They are literally replacing the 'old' one, so I figured it'd be nice to keep the loyalty and training.
Oh, and since I own both as two creatures.....could I just buy two transformation brews and 'swap' their bodies? That way I don't go from two valuable creatures to one? I'd love to give the old one to my friend when she joins, since she's also inheriting the original parents.
So offspring just can't be changed to at the moment...? Is that because there is not an item yet, or because of some reason we agree should not be changed...? I think offspring should especially be able to do this sort of change, more-so than an LE.
Would it be easier to just change the effect of the Brew to include them? Or should I suggest a new item?
Edit: I'm confused, are you saying that since they are unique they are like a custom...?
No, it's not because there's not item, it's because every offspring is a unique individual as soon as it is born.
You can suggest an item, but I do not believe that Offspring will ever be allowed to be changed into because they are unique individuals.
Okay, so when an offspring is born, it is literally produced, as a tiny creature. It is not like an LE, where multiple individuals can be a 'cave vulticus LE' or something. It is a unique, single, individual and cannot be changed into like a breed or something.
I have suggested an item previously that would allow for 'switched bodies' for creatures. It has never been accepted.
Well then this is one of those situations where I understand the lore, but it can just be changed. -shrug- What is the balancing reason behind it, is my real question. Balance > Lore. And since it does't seem to be game-breaking in any way (but rather game-saving if anything, since it'll save the progress made on the one), it'd make sense to just change the lore slightly and update the rules.
Customs are unique individuals as well.....and we can change into them. An offspring is pretty much just a custom that we didn't get to directly choose the appearance/stats of. ;) If you have both creatures, you can do it for a custom, so it makes sense (even current lore-wise) that it could be done for an offspring.
The current idea that it can't be done seems to be rooted somewhere in either faulty Spirit-logic, or some past stat-mod who had a random whim to disclude offspring, which was never updated. However, we can change these things as we recognize they don't have to exist that way - especially when there is a desire for it. <3
Literally what would it hurt? :) All it'd do is save me the trouble of essentially killing my creature I've worked on. Especially since the plan is to give the old offspring to a friend.....but 40 loyalty to someone else and a set personality would not serve her well.
I'll suggest a potion with two halves that can only work within the same species. One drinks one half. The other drinks the other, and they switch forms. And I'd definitely want to keep the cunning level, since that seems to be a more physical brain capacity thing. The separate soul-swap item can be for differing species.
No, this would be game breaking, because then a potentially different type of offspring would get a different set of stats that shouldn't be possible. This would cause people to have to move around stats, and especially if they're already bred, you can't change the stats of them anyway.
This is a no, a hard no, there's way to much that could go wrong with it.
And the warden sang Come on somebody Why don't you run Ol' Red's itchin' to have a little fun Get my lantern Get my gun Red'll have you treed before the mornin' comes
I think a problem we often face, myself and the staff, is the whole "I'm just one person". I mean, obviously *I* am one person, but with a lot of the suggestions I make, they are things that would help everyone who would eventually face (or had before and never asked to change) the problem. So in this very moment in time I may be the only person bringing it forward, but it's a very existing problem...-shrug-
As for stats...that's the whole point of transformation brew. To get different looks and stats. The things trained that don't make sense with the new DNA simply wouldn't work - but they could be opened up to new abilities they just inherited through the potion. What was the "different set of stats that shouldn't be possible"....?
As for changing stats of parents, that's not entirely an accurate concern. We can inject things that already had offspring...The offspring just inherit the pre-injection stats if they were born pre-injection. So why would this be different?
And as for moving around stats, it's really not that difficult...That's why I said it'd pretty much be switching the name on the offspring stats page. DNA wise, they would BE the other offspring. All this would do is IC keep the personality and thus level/loyalty/appropriate-training. So the image is still the result of the same parents, you are essentially just switching the name/'exp'. It wouldn't hurt genealogy whatsoever.
I'm coming at this as a problem-solver. All I ask is that you work with me. <3 I know that you all do a lot and I respect you, but I feel that the staff have an unfortunate habit of coming at anything as a problem-finder - and then taking any potential issue as ultimate failure. When really there could be simple fixes. Y'know...?
And if there are still holes in my logic, please show me where they are with an example so that we can work together to solve that potential problem. The point of this thread is that I am coming to the staff with a problem, since you have accepted the responsibility of keeping the game fun and working, and I am asking for a solution. Can you see why "a hard no" is rather disappointing...? :(
I don't like having to further explain my concerns because it can easily be interpreted as angry or ungrateful, so I appreciate your time and patience. <3
I don't mean to chime in where I might not belong, but you do have three different mods coming in to tell you no, and they all give you a reason for it. There's no problem to solve here. You were given the reason why you can't use the transformation brew in the way you had hoped: because they just don't work that way. They're for changing one breed into another, retaining that individual's mind and replacing the body. What you would like to have is a body swap. Currently the idea isn't supported by any means in the game. This doesn't mean it couldn't happen eventually, but we're just not there yet! This game world is full of magic, and as the game develops, more options may emerge. For the time being, you'll have to use the tools available. And if the none of the tools available can do what you'd like, you can't do it.
I love it when other people chime in other than mods. It makes people's concerns feels even more heard, and I do it a lot on other user's questions/ideas. I appreciate your words.
Another confusion that has arisen is that I am now talking about the eventual means of that soul-swap, rather than specifically the transformation brew. -nod- I'm not sure if the hard no was for the Brew - if it was, then I totally agree. It has a totally different purpose. So I guess I'll just rename this thread 'soul-swap' to follow where the discussion has led.
Post by Fiera Ferella on Feb 28, 2020 19:47:33 GMT -6
If I'm interpreting your suggestion correctly, it seems to me the balance issue is this. The transformation brew allows you to convert an LE breed to another LE breed. There is a set number of options, and none of them are more broken than others. But with the 'soul-swap' you're mentioning... why would it necessarily be restricted to just offspring? Lore-wise, that makes little sense. If you can swap a soul, theoretically you could do it between nearly anything, or at LEAST within ANY members of the same species. And I think that's where the problem might be? You could just keep swapping one pet of increasing power and training between a dozen different bodies forever. If you have a beefy thundergug custom or offspring with 100 levels and loyalty and whatnot, and a petite tournament comes up, there's nothing stopping that person from just swapping it into a smaller body and thus skipping the petite tier specific training for a pet. Sarane tournament? Just swap it onto a sarane! A lot of site mechanics are built to encourage a certain mode of play (something I've been thinking about a LOT with my own future game designs.). I think this is a website where the point is to train and spend time with a bunch of pets... and this item would essentially decentivize people to do that, and instead give them an incentive to only ever train one pet, and then just put that pet in whatever body is appropriate to the situation without ever having to train anything more than once. Which feels... a little silly to me? (Not to mention, even if it WAS restricted to just offspring, there's still some major disparities in power levels there. There's a big difference between an offspring of two standard LEs, and two customs with a bajillion add-ons each.)
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely see where you're coming from- the loyalty gained to your character makes things difficult for your friend who's coming in. Unfortunately, it seems like there's just a lot of ways that this could be exploited in ways that make the site unfun, even if you mean well. As a solution to your problem however, maybe you could do a personality 'retcon', just essentially writing off the previous RP stuff with that offspring as noncanon? That way your friend's character could get a pet that is just... weirdly smart and knows stuff already, but is otherwise a blank slate. That could be fun to RP! And if anything, having a pet that already comes with some tricks known or TP gained already would be a huge windfall to a new player.
Ok, I see now. So, when approaching the topic of a soul-swap it's best to remember the fact that this kind of thing has been suggested before, as per Renathan: "I have suggested an item previously that would allow for 'switched bodies' for creatures. It has never been accepted."
The reasons why have also been given, from Jack: "No, this would be game breaking, because then a potentially different type of offspring would get a different set of stats that shouldn't be possible. This would cause people to have to move around stats, and especially if they're already bred, you can't change the stats of them anyway."
I'm formulating the following idea starting on a no: I actually don't Jack's reason is too much of a pressing point against the soul-swap idea; the previous stats of the creature that has been 'soul-swapped' would need to be recorded someplace in the case of offspring I suppose (to prevent any confusion), but additions and changes to stats happen all the time with injections.
The mechanics or workings of the ideal soul-swap (imo) is this: a pair of individuals minds are swapped into each others bodies. Individuals may retain their learned tricks, like their name, but would need to learn how to use this new body of theirs, regardless of how similar it was to their former one. A mind is highly attuned to its own body, after all. This process would let you keep loyalty, levels, and tricks (that are appropriate for anatomy) of an individual and place them onto another individual's image. Learned moves and abilities would be lost. On the surface, it's primarily a cosmetic change. But there's plenty of in-game implications to be had with this. What if highly wanted criminal swapped their body with a poor, innocent villager's? It's not something you'd really want to be a thing happening in the world! So there's another reason why it really shouldn't be a thing. But let's go on and make it a thing anyways.
Now, through what in-game process could this be achieved...? Currently, none. Let's make one. I don't feel like there's a credit price to put on this, so I doubt any purchasable item could do this. Why? Mostly lore reasons. Souls aren't things so easily manipulated kept precisely in tact. You'd need some high level magic. As I understand it, magic is still relatively young in the world, making its gradual reemergence, but I'm sure some people are ahead of the game. Souls are fickle things as it is, and a process like soul-swapping can alter an individual in unpredictable ways if done incorrectly. You'll need to find a rather secretive mage, convince them that you have a good reason (or a good thing to offer) in exchange for this service. Or maybe happen upon some ancient ritual long forgotten and hope you can conduct it.
Long story short: it would be a cosmetic no-big-deal, but it's not very accommodating to the game lore. Lots of implications from a world building standpoint, and the world isn't ready for this kind of thing yet. I think it could be possible, with enough effort. But it definitely shouldn't be a common thing or easy to achieve. It's something that should be done for a story telling purpose above anything.
So here's the item I had suggested, which I am referring to in this thread:
DNA Trading Potion*Note: Some of what is written in this have been changed further in the post. Functionality: A potion that can only work within the same species to switch forms. Similar to the Transformation Potion, but specifically for offspring, since Customs, LE, and VSC all work for the initial potion and only require one creature to switch into a known-existing breed. Loyalty and Levels transfer, and any training that still works with the new stats does as well. (For instance Hardy or Scratch, but not 'Breathe Fire' on something without such a move.) Explanation of Balancing: The user must own both offspring, and the offspring must have their stats and image updated to their name. Would likely cost 400-500c, since it is pretty much two transformation brews in one. Since offspring are unique, this won't duplicate any - while also not 'deleting' any. OOC this is literally just switching the registered names, which IC allows your creature to have a different look and capability. Limit of Purchase: Since Transformation brews are unlimited, it would make sense that this would be, too. Especially since there are way more offspring out there than LE/VSC, so people would likely need more than one, and it isn't game-breaking in any way, so it shouldn't need to be highly regulated. Appearances: A curvy bottle with two main parts, like an hour-glass. They are separated by a screwable piece which can be unscrewed to separate and give them to the respective offspring. Item Flavor Text. A single hair, scale, or even dead-skin cells can be used from each offspring and mixed into the other's potion to set the intended DNA. Be careful not to get your own DNA inside, or anyone else's for that matter, or you might end up with a deformed result. Fortunately, the process is completely painless, as a strong sedative is included in the potion. Both offspring will simply fall asleep and wake up different. Do note that it may take a few days for certain abilities to settle. EDIT: If two customs are the same species, this could work for them as well, so two don't have to become one. Especially since you paid for two creatures.
Thanks, FF and Xen, for replying as well. ;)
I had switched it to DNA trading with the lore-explanation because the purely magical soul approach did seem a bit too delicate, and I was thinking this would specifically be within a species to prevent what FF was warning against. I don't know if I had mentioned in this thread before now. Also, there would be a high price on this like 500c so it wouldn't be realistic for someone to whimsically switch back and forth. Besides, technically that same concern could be same about the transformation and mutagenic brew that already exist. -shrug- This is just aimed at offspring because they don't fit into the "unique to generic, one creature involved" logic of the transformation brew. (Being unique to unique instead, two creatures involved instead.) However, technically LE's or whatever could use it. That's possible just not as commonly wanted.
As for the difference between stats that FF mentioned in the end of their first paragraph, that is what the transformation brew does already. You can already turn it into a custom with a bajillion addons. :) And what you said about my friend simply getting a high leveled creature is very true, if all else fails. Thanks for that reminder.
I really liked the way that Xentus wrote their reply. It mentioned the problems put forward while explaining how we could go around them as well. It was also written in a very easy to follow format. <3
I can see why it could be even more balancing to have moves and abilities not pass through. That makes sense. And they will still have the levels to re-train them - which makes FF's (very valid) concern even less of a risk.
As for the concern of morals, like if a criminal wanted to swap DNA with an innocent...first of all, the labs is far from a moral place. lol Nullifiers, for example. Second, it wouldn't be at all the first time a potion of some kind didn't work on characters. Injections are a great example. Hehe! And as for the 'how it's done', swapping it to a DNA trade makes it a lot more realistic, since the Labs is all about DNA. ;)
What I'm suggesting (goodness, a question turned into a suggestion but is still in the question board, sorry) is an item that switches level, loyalty, and appropriate-tricks as Xentus better worded. It will only work within a species, to prevent FF's concern. And it has to be retrained any moves/abilities to further balance.
This has been a bit of a roller-coaster, and I am grateful for the teamwork!
I suppose I'll leave some final thoughts on this since I've invested the time:
I see you're intent on this to being a thing but it's not going to happen any time soon, if at all. The reasons have been laid out. As far as I can tell, your reason for wanting it is to let your friend play without losing too much on your end. I'm not certain if that's the full extent of it, but it would best to look into currently available alternatives that would leave both you and your friend happy. I'm sure there's a way you can work around this! If your friend wants a specific looking critter to play with, they can order a custom (or you can order one for them). If you want to give them one of your own for a character-based interpersonal connection kind of purpose, then you may have to resign with letting them play with something you've already invested time into. If don't want to give them it, then don't? You could use a mutagenic + transformation brew on the offspring and transfer it onto a new custom image. Then have an another custom made in the likeness of the original to give to your friend. There's current in-game ways to work around this. What you'd like to have seems to have a very, very specific purpose in mind that I don't see very many people utilizing. Some might, like yourself, but it just isn't needed given the current state of the game.
Twilight-Claw: I am still interested in trading it for a green drake.
Jun 1, 2020 0:31:33 GMT -6
Ridelys: If you are still interested in a trade twilight, for your fidelity result, let me know.
May 31, 2020 22:49:49 GMT -6
Riku: I got three pet levels and 15c out of it. <3 And all the necessary posts for my job salary form.
May 31, 2020 18:49:26 GMT -6
Riku: In mine my crossbreed used foxfire to burn it - but then it used incendiary illusion, which was extra scary because my cross is a plant pet with thick fur. It used the distraction to escape. I’m proud of it, and it’s okay that I won’t finish this month.
May 31, 2020 18:48:42 GMT -6
Renathan: *But of course, the RNG was not having that. / In Morgan's story, the Nyssa was a real thing, so I wanted to have two different situations for the variety.
May 31, 2020 18:15:27 GMT -6
Renathan: Yeah, the 'finished the story but the RNGods are being a butt' thing is a rather unfortunate situation to be in. I had already decided that in Ren's story, the elderly woman had lied about the nyssa and just wanted someone to talk to*
May 31, 2020 18:14:49 GMT -6
Riku: That makes sense. I've considered that before. -nod- I hope your non-hxr life is going smoothly.
May 31, 2020 16:38:08 GMT -6
Haix: Just quitting the job. Don't believe I'll be making the ten posts required per month any time soon. XD
May 31, 2020 16:34:01 GMT -6
Riku: Note to haix, I believe you can post the new application form at the same time as the quitting form. Unless you are simply taking an overall break from the job system.
May 31, 2020 16:30:58 GMT -6
Fiera Ferella: even AT the gardens yet. XD It sucks when you've finished writing your story and haven't gotten a success, because then its like "well... now what?" XD
May 31, 2020 15:51:47 GMT -6
Fiera Ferella: ive found that when there's a quest that might take longer like this, its a good idea to try and space out the story beats to try and roll a success before i get to the meat of the story. XD Like, by the time i was 5 posts in my character wasn't
May 31, 2020 15:51:21 GMT -6
Riku: It’d definitely put me a month closer to my goals, literally, at least. 🤔
May 31, 2020 15:50:19 GMT -6
Fiera Ferella: You can always try! :3 At the very least its more levels for your character and more TP for your pet
May 31, 2020 15:50:14 GMT -6
Riku: I love that you can mention that and know what it is. Muahahaha! Everyone has their secrets. 😈 (Iz not secret, just oOooOoooh mysterious effect. 😉)
May 31, 2020 15:49:41 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: I hope you do decide and are capable of finishing it Riku! Will definitely be worth it in getting more points for your master plan.
May 31, 2020 15:48:23 GMT -6
Riku: I know...that was why I wanted to do it. Hm. Maybe I can plow through it. O.O (plow as in tumbling down a steep slope, not in the fast powerful way.)
May 31, 2020 15:48:18 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: This quest got 3+ quest points.
May 31, 2020 15:46:39 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: I have no idea about that one for sure, but there does seem to be a few that are nearly in the rainbow spectrum with how many different colors they have on their hide.
May 31, 2020 15:46:12 GMT -6
Riku: Note that I got panic buttons this month, so in the future if the quest is only a 1QP-er, I can go do a 3QP. Or if I simply don’t want to do a new one on both accounts, I can do an old one on the second. // I type faster than my phone screen can keep up.HA
May 31, 2020 15:45:15 GMT -6