So I've obviously been spending a lot of time looking at species while doing the stats pages, and it's sparked a lot of discussion about what people do and don't like about various creatures. So I came up with a question: Why DON'T people use/train some species more than others? What's your thoughts?
I've made this little poll with a list of reasons why I think people skip over or don't use some species. Care to share your opinion? This might even help us design future species better, maybe. Mostly this is just because I'm curious how others feel.
Feel free to comment/discuss if you want! Otherwise your votes are anonymous so feel free to be totally honest.
I only voted for three things, but to be honest I think the only reason on there that's never been the case for me is 'anatomy/pose issues'
Granted, I have a bunch of different characters now, and their respective priorities are all different -- for example, Noa doesn't tend to 'waste time' on creatures that aren't useful to him, while Malcolm is more about looks and social utility over martial prowess, so it's not quite as bad as it used to be re: 'my character wouldn't be interested', but getting 4+ different characters poses its own problems.
But at the same time I also feel like... Well, now that I'm thinking about it, as a player it's not as if I have unlimited time and brainpower (and, in my case, hand joint endurance :'| ). I don't even have enough of those things to play with all the pets I DO have plots for and wanna do cool things with, so... One of the biggest reasons is "I have too many things" XD And it's a little tough to make a case for LEs from a middling power tier with no differentiating factors and janky art when you have a bunch of cool offspring/crossbreeds/customs that you're excited for and still don't do anything with because of those limitations.
I guess I'd just rather invest a lot of time/effort/plot into a few creatures, rather than spread myself all around?
Edit: That said though, the pets that are hard to play with or hard to grow also kinda wear me out in particular. I know a lot of people (myself included) have like, semi-trained Sarane or Houluh because of it, but having pets like that where I feel forced to devote effort to them feels like it's sapping my resources for other pets and stories I would've otherwise pursued.
And the steeper the requirements for a specific species, the more I'm like, "I probably won't play with one then unless I REALLY feel like committing to it", which... ends up just becoming "I probably won't play with one then". The WELP species come to mind, especially having already done that song and dance with Houluh and Sarane and burning myself out on that.
I think I’m mostly just character-driven at this point to be honest. Like Swell having creatures that aren’t necessarily to his lifestyle just makes me look at certain pets in a different light I guess? On the flip-side I’ve got plans for other characters that have completely different tastes and themes than Swell and different priorities and it makes me like the pet more for them and makes me think of ways to play those pets with them. 🤷🏻♂️
Oh, the knife of insight Brought me to my knees Broke me down and Taught me how to see
Mostly related to free time and random chance for me. Guess some restrictions might make me shy away as I won't have the time to dump posts into them, especially not if the threshold for easy entry is long gone. And, in the past, stats would help me pick out which ones to spend the time on, but I gave up on contest/pit competitions here a long time ago. XD
1. Biggest deterrent for me is boring/uninteresting stats on creatures that don't really fit the role of "companion pet that doesn't really battle". I can deal with boring stats on like a Vulticus cause that can also fulfill the role of companion dog which is easy to roleplay with. But a lot of pets have boring stats which make them unappealing to fulfill roles like battle pet or mount. It doesn't matter if something like a Walnut Shiku has basic stats cause you can throw them on your shoulder and it becomes "cute shoulder companion". But for something like a battle pet or mount, I'm going to be a lot pickier over the stats on the thing I choose. I do somewhat try to follow the species guides for creature behaviour. So I'm not really inclined to take something like a Seeker and treat it like a companion pet that can go everywhere with my characters. So if I don't pick Seeker for a battle pet, well then it's not getting used.
2. Not really a fan of things being perpetually babies. If I want something at a younger stage, I'd rather design a custom around that concept so they could at least get an interesting gimmick that makes them have a cool concept or have some nifty moves that could be used for a contest. I find that playing with baby pets can get pretty stale quite quickly.
3. Too many things have arbitrary level/loyalty requirements on them. Regrowth/Antigrowth potions are limited in how often you can buy them and they cost credits. I have some pets I want to play with that I need to regrow first to meet the requirement and that gets put off in favor of other things. It's just kind of frustrating how everything has these requirements from 10+ years ago and you have to go through the process of aging down the pet in order to meet them.
My issues are probably similar to a few people's, with a little different twist in a few areas I think.
First off, I want to make it clear that These are all My (probably bad) opinions. :3 I also don't think it hurts to have 'more popular' and 'less popular' species.
A. Move/Ability Stats being boring or numerical stats being distributed in a way that makes them un-useful for Contests or the Pit. -I used to care about the Pit a lot but now I just... Don't. It's a long story and maybe I'll work towards the Pit Bosses someday. -It really has gotten to where if you really, really want to guarantee success in the pit there IS an empirical set of 'right answers'. Training barely means anything in the long haul for a species that just isn't 'pit' material and doesn't fit for anything else. Though it doesn't really matter to 'win' overall, it does cause a sort of... Specific mindset about stats and pet uses. -These are the only workable 'long term goals' for the site so it does make some species matter more than others. -Getting Customs or Offspring is 'best' for working towards workable stats for most 'boring' species. Capitol for that is not unlimited, especially in species not picked up by the cheapest means. -You can only have one Familiar, so it feels more 'important' than other non-pit pets. IE: I decided on my familiar for Renathan a long time ago. I sort of wish I'd made a different decision, but I do LOVE Auburn. I just don't want to lose her Loyalty. <3 I also felt kind of obligated to make Nico Morgan's familiar since he has that 'over level 100 thing' and I feel guilty for not, even though I wanted Morgan's familiar to fit Morgan being really weird. This all being said; Badrani's familiar IS going to be an 'normal' pet! :3 -I do hope to get back into Contests since they are low-stress, but admittedly, I've re-read the description of the 'changes' made to it a few times and it just isn't clicking for me what actually... Changed about it for the actual 'doing' of it for Members? Maybe I was doing it wrong? Maybe I'm reading it wrong? Didn't we always have to use trained moves/abilities on command for the most part and weave them into a story of how the creature behaved on stage? I dunno, sometimes I'm a little bit slow to pick up on this kind of thing. -Last thing: Creature intelligences used to not bother me as a Kid. I'd just go 'welp hi, here's my cunning 3 pet that somehow has the personality of a humanoid' but now I cannot do that. Diesel (Vulti back then) had a people personality in example; but he's basically an especially feral 'dog' now. And Elemental Golems? I LOVE THEM but Cunning 1 sounds tricky to play. I do plan on playing it at some point, but I do think that there are only so many 'just a dogs' you can roleplay before running out of personalities for 'just a dog'. Caveat: I no longer care about having a long-term 'goal' to 'win' and have been just enjoying roleplaying for the sake of fun/aesthetics. However, I still have that mindset from years of being on here as habit to REALLY care about stats. Kid me wanted to do some stuff that I've realized as an adult just doesn't matter (because I really just like writing stories); but those habits are still there.
B. I am VERY particular about creature images. -If I don't like the animal the species is based on, I won't train it (IE: Weaver, Kito, Karashak, Pliathor, etc). This is just personal preference, and I am glad the species exist because not everyone likes the same things. -If the anatomy or pose bothers me badly enough, I won't train it unless I get a custom that fixes that. -points to capitol above- -If the species doesn't grow to old, there's a chance I won't bother (unless the species is one of my favorites). -Heck, if the -colors- bother me I won't bother with it. This is personal preference though. -All of this being said, I have been known to take a liking to baby and juvie stages. c: I have anti-growth'd pets just because I like the images. (I plan to get an anti-growth'd chiryma sometime, those babies are ADORABLE). -I have a particular set of aesthetic likes or dislikes. I think I may be TOO picky about art sometimes.
C. Nostalgia. -I don't think that things like a Requirement that make species unique (especially the VERY smart ones or the ones with cool stats) are a bad thing actually. I like them. It fits storyline-wise and can give hints for growing species as to whether or not they are going to get 'really cool' as adults/old. I Don't think that antigrowth or regrowth potions should be limited in shops though; if people could buy them whenever and easily, requirements wouldn't be so bad. -I am most invested in creatures that I was invested in years ago. <3 Time constraints are a big deal. -I do plan on training all of my critters at some point, but alas; TIME! -Note that I do have a few pets OVER level 100 with a bunch of training from back when you had to do all training, even base stats by hand; and a lot of that training IS just tricks and such. :3 So though I like the changes to the training system a lot, I never -hated- the old grindy ones really. It just took time to get the inclination to just START. -I do love a lot of my new acquisitions, and am excited for WELP Species. I do plan on investing time in my WELP beebs, but I need to have more time for playing. <3
D. Historically I've been more interested in species with specific 'systems'. I have finally gotten to a point to where I am chilling out with this a bit, but that's fine! -Whenever/if new systems come in or new things are added to the systems we have, I'll jump into them. I know myself pretty well! -I will probably not strive towards getting any of my sarane dominant ever again. I just don't really like the system as I've gotten older (and that's fine and personal preference, I don't think that warrants changed at all), but I do love my sarane, and I do plan to grow them. Time constraints! -I like the houluh system, I have a unique viewpoint on it due to being the colorist for it. I will be working with my houluh when I get the time; I have a couple of breeding goals to get to in the long run. -(I originally designed it expecting for people to be very particular about which houluh 'mean' a lot to them [or had genetics they wanted to use to work towards a specific color combo they wanted] and only training/breeding those and not breeding out basically every houluh they own at some point, but that's not how they wound up being played; which is cool! Collectable species are fun. I do like the system and think it is balanced from the perspective of being the person that is putting the work in to design these pups. They are well on the way to somewhere around 150ish -offspring- already, and a lot of them I have made THREE images for [more than Sarane have to be 'art-sided' due to the 3 vs 2 stages... and the Sarane system is harder and has been around longer!], that's not counting Spirit's houluh that rise out of the woodwork or the fidelity pups. That's a lot of work, so making these easier would severely slog down the system on the 'colorist' end to an extreme. That being said; I do LOVE making pups.) -I do have to admit, after this last orbaru breeding I did I might be okay retiring from breeding orbaru for the most part. I'm finding it harder and harder to slog through 'two cute pets played with blocks until I get to the post requirement', but once again; I DO like the system how it is. I've done a LOT of orbaru breeding over the years. If I feel the need to collect more/different breeds or have a really cool pairing idea, that'll change again though. c: I actually would really like to see more orbaru breeds. I love orbies. -I LOVE THE FOSSIL SYSTEM AND WILL BE USING IT I PROMISE! I just like to take things slow, and have a few select ones 'finished' being trained and fed before grabbing a bunch of new ones. -Oh yeah, Pachee are a thing. I am really interested in working towards the new addons, I need to get on with that. -That being said, obviously, historically these systems have taken a LOT of my time-capitol, so now I should be open for more stuff 'I want to do' that doesn't have that sort of a rigid 'goal' already set up.
E. I'm a 'steady' wins the race (not necessarily slow and steady, but still) person. -So I'll be working at chipping everything away as I go! -Just because I don't like/am not interested in something today doesn't mean I won't always be. -I've done a lot of changing over the years that I've played, so I know I'll change a lot more the next *counts* coming up on Fifteen Years. -It just isn't feasible to train Everything onsite. So I pick my favorites and GOGOGO
I guess I'm at that in-between stage where I still feel like a creature has to be 'good' enough or have a 'purpose' without actually caring about the purposes anymore. Huh, weird. I guess now that I've identified for sure that I don't 'care' about any of the stuff that I keep feeling like a creature has to be 'good enough' for, I'll just train whatever I want now. What is the point of being like 'these stats would never work for the pit!' when I just. Don't want to use the pit for the most part?
Goals are kind of arbitrary anyway, but they really have controlled what I've had time and inclination to do in the past.
I'm also planning on slowing down on customs a tad, but it is mostly because of the time it takes to get the stats okayed plus the time it takes to get the custom in. By the time they get turned in and okayed sometimes, the muse I had when I ordered the pet is usually gone cold. I still don't think that will make me go out and adopt a bunch of Common, LE, or VSCs from species though, because of stats being boring (even though the chances of me 'getting into the pit' are really low). Customs really have been my go-to forever. I'm like: 'I'll bestow upon this species that I love the BEST honor! *gets a custom of it*' for a long time.
Also, if all of the base species suddenly got cool magical powers because it was determined that people would play with them more if they did I think it wouldn't work (not that I think that will happen but thought exercise!). A lot of people are really invested in species that have been around the longest due to nostalgia. I don't think suddenly giving Snorfle mega stats and the ability to breathe fire and windwalk would 'fix' the 'issue'. Some things are just not going to be as popular (Gawsh, I want Snorfle to grow though, I LOVE tapirs!).
People are really weird. We are messy and make weird decisions, I am the chief perhaps among the 'messy' ones in that way. Typing this out made me have to consider a bunch of things I hadn't thought about at length.
(I just re-read over this and MAN is it Cringe and It's late so I'm sorry in advance!)
Post by Fiera Ferella on Nov 17, 2021 8:14:01 GMT -6
I've read through everyone else's replies, and I've been thinking about it a bit, and I THINK I finally have an answer for this. XD For the record, its hard to think of critters that I "like" or "dislike" more than others, and I train a lot of LEs and VSC because I am a cheap person who should never be trusted with money. I will swindle you out of so many pretty babies for credits, mark my words. (Sorry OTL I just have issues with spending money). Also, I feel like this is a question that's really hard to answer without coming off as being mean to SOMEONE because everyone's personal preferences are different. So I assure you, I'm not singling anyone out with this nor do I think anyone's particular reasons for wanting a pet are bad! Like! That's not what I'm about!
But that being said, stats aren't really important to me. Like. I've often picked pets for pit competitions that I KNEW probably weren't going to win just because I liked the idea of having one in the competition and I liked the creature. Like, in the winter wonderbrawl competition I knew that Donner wasn't going to win but hey, fun times anyway! I also really don't mind pets with restrictions and requirements. Like sure it might take me a little while longer to get to them, but... I don't have infinite time, so it'll take me a little longer to get to anything! Whatever! I just keep some regrowth potions on hand usually for when the muse springs out at me.
...I think I might be the only person who voted "concept" though, lmao. For the record: there are no species that I DISLIKE or would never play with, but there are a few that just don't jump out at me and I'll never play. I'm mostly going to be rambling about things I think about when designing for WELP corp here, so sorry if y'all wanted any... like... RELEVANT opinions. XD But I think that every species should be... INTERESTING in some way. Like, I will probably never play with a common equillion or a brown vulticus because, well... they're JUST a wolf and JUST a horse. And that's fine! I know a lot of people prefer it that way because it makes a great jumping off point for equine or canine-based customs and offspring, and sometimes you want a "base" to draw the desired traits onto without any extra bells and whistles. But for someone who doesn't want to spend money? Of course they'd gravitate to something else. We might say that these species are played with super often... but the actual BASIC members of that species? I don't really see it a lot, tbh. And I think that's a little unfair to new players or folks who don't want to pay to play. I think all species should have something appealing to them, and every LE or basic breed should have a neat quirk that might make someone gravitate for them. It shouldn't be "you can having boring brown pets for free, but anything with fancy colors you have to pay for". Though uh, hopefully with all the artists we have on the site now and the options they're creating, that's not really something we have to worry about anymore. XD
And I'm not necessarily talking about "something else" being battle ready stats. There's a lot of creatures that range from "meh" to downright terrible in terms of stats, but people love em anyway, even the basic breeds. Harachiu definitely come to mind, along with tat-lung. (Though some tats are plenty fierce, haha. But they're no thundergug, is what I'm saying.) But that's because, in my opinion, there's a lot more detail and effort put into making these species different from the crowd, to give them some sort of lore or stat detail that makes them different, interesting and fun to play with. Harachiu are essentially tiny people, so you can give them infinitely different personalities. Tat-lung have an amazing customs system, and even the original breeds have wildly different appearances within the species' limits.
I think that's also part of why I don't mind level and loyalty requirements, because they tell you something about those creatures and make them different and unique in some way. If a species stops listening to you after a certain point, that tells you about them and is a unique "quirk" of the species. I think more critters should be quirky! Maybe not in terms of requirements, but just in having a move or ability you wouldn't expect, or an odd diet or personality trait, etc. I don't find creatures that are "just animals" to be interesting to play with, but the ones that have interesting lore or things to do with them? That's cool! I think that's why I like houluh so much, even though they're "just dogs". The genetics and growth requirements give you something to work up to and aim toward when playing them. When you have a website with so many infinite options of play as this one, a goal is an important thing, I feel like!
But then you have critters like... uh... ok hopefully this isn't going to offend anyone, sorry if this is your favorite critter, but. *Holds up a scuta* These guys are part of what I mean when I say a lot of those middling species are "boring". They're clearly based off of small, armored mammals like armadillos and pangolin, but they also don't have any of the weirdness that makes those guys so fun? They don't roll into a ball like armadillo, and they don't have that bipedal stance, hunched back, and massive claws that pangolin have. They just kind of... look like armored kitties, anatomically. (Which is weird because their babies definitely didn't look like that). And kitties are cute and fun! But we also have other options for cats that are more fun to play in terms of quirkiness and personality. The devastating speed of mosca, the spookiness of tailypo, the intelligence and magic of enileaf, the "not actually a cat" of malii, etc. Scuta don't bring anything NEW to the table. And I don't think a straight up boost to their stats would necessarily help this either. Just tacking on some elemental moves doesn't necessarily help, nor would boosting up their power levels. It doesn't change the fact that they're, lore-wise, kind of boring. We DO have that uhhhh "add more info to this species" project that Silver has going though. The Encyclopedia project? My memory is failing me here, but That One. I think it would really help add some more pizzazz and flair to them, and thus get people's creative engines going when they read about them. That sort of thing.
(There are other creatures that I think share this issue too, of being "Just A Critter"- Murp, COD, Snorfle, Bwee. A lot of those middle-number, fully grown but forgotten critters.)
That's why I really like our weirder and more oddball species, tbh! Inkrum are probably my most FAVORITE species because they're just so damn WEIRD. That doesn't necessarily mean that I think all of the other creatures should be CHANGED, though. Like I said, more basic creatures have their appeal and use, and I truly believe that every creature has someone out there who would LOVE it. I really want them to stay the same! Like... for example, I follow an artist who's favorite Pokemon isn't one of the big, marketable ones. It's Gloom- a mid-line, forgettable creature. But damn, if he doesn't love it. (Same with me, my favorite is sigilyph.) So I think that even the critters that are most yawnable to me could genuinely be someone's favorite, even if that someone is a space alien who digs up the Proboards servers out of a tomb 5 million years in the future. But it's WORTH IT to them. And the same to anyone else- I shy away from wanting to COMPLETELY redo Spirit's old stuff just because that sort of janky charm might be just that to someone- charming. And it would be a shame to get rid of that, imo! (Not that I fault anyone for wanting to get their stuff redrawn though, y'all paid money for that lmao.)
But now that we have a basic canine, cat, equine, etc, it IS affecting what creatures I add to WELP going forward. It makes me ask "Ok, what do we need? Is this a type of animal we already have, or is it filling a blank? What would make people go "Oh, I want to play with that?" What quirk or personality does it have that would start up peoples' muse for it?" For example, we already have plenty of cats, but tailypo fill a gap for the stereotype of spooky, sly, sneaky cats that we weren't really getting out of anything else. But from there, I walk it back to "Ok, is this TOO much personality? Would I be railroading people into playing them a specific way? Is there too MUCH detail on it, which would make people not want customs of it because they feel its already "filled in", so to speak?" It's a balance to be struck, but I'm really trying my best to strike it, so to speak, haha.
So TLDR; I don't actually give a shit about stats or requirements so long as it sounds fun to play with and looks weird, lmao.
The art and anatomy of a species honestly does influence whether or not I'd want one. Even if I do like the species conceptually. I know I couldn't get over the Adult Drej's squished face, and the Old has wonky legs. The V2 Old wiurn's chest and wings are horrid. The Adult Lasiobel is just ugly. The Adult Rakai have a funky pose.. As an artist, I could (and do) nit-pick a lot of anatomy issues.
Aside from that, it's easier for me to say why I do use certain species over others rather than why I don't. When it comes to actually playing with creatures, I care about having use. For battle, contests, mounts, companion/'everyday' pet.. Then after that, I think about personal appeal of the species, coloration, and stats. I also only really use creatures that are special too. Custom, (U)VSC, Offspring, and otherwise hard-to-get/trophies. I like having/using special stuff :> Even if I find that I like a species and would use one, I'll usually want a custom/VSC over any of the regularly available breeds.
✧ ･ﾟ : *✧ ･ﾟ : * like stars burning holes right through the dark * : ･ﾟ ✧ * : ･ﾟ ✧
Zenjesi: Hey Silv - how do you pronounce Kodakai?
Nov 17, 2023 18:23:56 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: Not to mention the baby mosca with wolf skin from Elvye and the sparkling owl of Xentus. <3
Nov 14, 2023 10:27:52 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: I like the Donnor one not just with looks FF, but the description, funny as heck.
Nov 14, 2023 10:26:27 GMT -6
Zenjesi: yours both made me laugh, FF! They're very expressive
Nov 13, 2023 21:57:46 GMT -6
Fiera Ferella: Woooow Twilight, I love that witch drawing!!! :0 It's so pretty! And Zenjesi I think Spectral is my favorite out of yours lol. Just looks happy to be included. and silver now i wanna know which pets youd pick for the other legendary beasts. XD
Nov 13, 2023 21:37:45 GMT -6
Silver: Ah I'm so glad you guys enjoyed it! I love everyone's drawings they're all so cute. ;o;
Nov 13, 2023 17:31:37 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: I like that one as well yeah, loved the old nootnoot image from quest prizes, so that one went perfectly with that particular costume being based around it. X3
Nov 13, 2023 15:23:13 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: The jewelry on tail or at the head definitely tends to be their most recognizable feature for a Mosca, and sadly their pharaoh chin piece as well. XD
Nov 13, 2023 15:21:07 GMT -6
Zenjesi: Your peanut costume is hilarious and adorable too!
Nov 13, 2023 15:14:29 GMT -6
Zenjesi: Yes you're correct! I guess I did a decent enough job with the drawing!
Nov 13, 2023 15:05:27 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: It still looks good on Synkka. She is a shaman Mosca I'm guessing? Its mostly the tail that makes me think of it.
Nov 13, 2023 15:00:42 GMT -6
Zenjesi: I definitely like Spectral's the most too! I sort of cheated by drawing Synkka with a cloak because I do not know how to draw feathered wings, haha ^^'
Nov 13, 2023 13:45:15 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: Which one do you like the most out of the three you made?
Nov 13, 2023 12:09:48 GMT -6
Twilight-Claw: Thanks for that compliment! Though I know with the water it doesn't look entirely great, I love the latter one I made the most.
Nov 13, 2023 12:09:30 GMT -6